...Many have proclaimed that Plato is making normative claims whereas, Thucydides is making empirical claim. I will address Thucydides versus Plato on the nature of the Good Life, as well as the truth about Thucydides. Thucydides and Plato have different views in their approach to the good life. Thucydides empirical claims , and dismissal of “right & justice” is best known from his famous writings “ The Peloponnesian war.” Whereas, Plato’s normative claims is best known in his writings in “The Republic.” In the Republic Plato states that the proper function of a man is his soul, to live with justice and obtain a harmonious life. The basic concept of Plato's theory about the good life is built on the concept that everything has a purpose, a job, a function. Plato believed that a man’s role is determine by nature, and man cannot decide for themselves what their function may be. In the Republic Plato discusses the proper use of function of man. It is his soul and to live with justice, and obtain a sense of harmony and unity. Lisa H. Newton stated,“in the greatest of all works of philosophy, Plato offers an elegant proof of the proposition: that whether or not the world recognizes and rewards virtue, the just person is the happiest of human beings.” However, I find in today’s society that most just people are not the wealthiest people. Somehow it is a trade off: just and poor, unjust wealthy. Thucydides would definitely disagree with the idea of universal truth of what...
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...It is important to study Thucydides because Thucydides can help us to understand the way politics work in the world today.This should come later – it is not an introduction to a whole paper – always assume your reader is not familiar with your topic In his book titled, The History of the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides brings to light, some of the causes of the war, as well as some of the consequences of the war. (This is a good opening sentence. It introduces the reader to the topic) Thucydides analyzed the Peloponnesian War on a deeper level (what do you mean?) to help us understand why and how things occur in the world. The world has a better understanding of war and politics in general because of Thucydides. Thucydides’ account of The History of the Peloponnesian War has taught us many things about how politics work in the modern world. (These last three sentences are a little repetitive and do not give a lot of information) One thing that Thucydides’ work on the Peloponnesian War has taught us is that states are only concerned with their own interests, and how their interests can benefit them (repetitive). Good! This is demonstrated in the conflict between Melos and Athens. Good! The Melians wanted to avoid conflict with Athens by trying to persuade them that the Athenians should not attack them because they were neutral and not allies to either side (Thucydides Book VI, p. 2). The Athenians did not comply with the Melians plea to maintain their territory. Instead,...
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...A critical distinction within Thucydides narrative is whether the war with Persia was a ‘pretext’. This would imply that Athens had a concealed motive from the start only Thucydides never elaborates on this in a definitive way. Dutton’s translation uses not ‘pretext’ but ‘professed object’ as Thucydides meaning of πρόσχημα (before / in front) which has the same connotations of a ‘front’ hiding other reasons for Athens leading the retribution against Persia. This may well be hindsight on Thucydides part however the idea that Athens could consciously and cynically build towards empire is disturbing; furthermore the cementing of the oaths by dropping weights into the sea showed the expected permanence of the alliance ‘to last until the iron...
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... The fundamental concept Thucydides brings out in his work On Justice, Power, and Human Nature, is his pessimistic view towards human nature while simultaneously contending that justice is what it takes to catalyze prosperity. Thucydides makes certain claims through his representation of democracy that portray his views on human nature. His view teaches us that human nature has been the ultimate tool used by the famous speakers of ancient Greece—thus, it is important in studying his History for we are able to delineate these falsities as we apply them to our own lives. Then, in evaluating the implications in Thucydides’ History, I will agree that it is natural human inclination to unjustly rule over others. I propose to argue my case by first describing human nature and it’s relationship with power and second to explain that with the absence of such conventions such as justice, human nature and overt power induce civil strife. In the “Melian Dialogue,” Thucydides provides a precise position on his view of human nature and its’ pair, power. He shows here that human nature is cruel and unjust and when it is not controlled and restrained, human nature will incline man to become possessive of those more weaker than him and thus pursue his own self-interest through greed. During the Melian Dialogue, the Melians declined the Athenians’ proposal that they submit to the Athenians. In this dialogue, Thucydides made clear that the superior will use...
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...Thucydides versus Plato Thucydides versus Plato on the nature of the Good Life Plato and Thucydides both had strikingly different views on their approach on the good life. Some have claimed that Plato is making normative claims, whereas Thucydides is making empirical claims. Let's start by taking a look at Plato. Plato's theory on the good life was based on the belief that everything has an objective or use that is typically suited for virtue, beauty, justice, and excellence of the precise thing, and everything will depend on the completion of that role. He considers the good life as being attained through the perfect love and lack of desire. Plato views the good life as the condition a person exhibits total virtue. Virtue tends to come from the absence of desires, or expectations , so true happiness means being pleased to the point one doesn’t have desires. He’s convinced that everyone has the power to be virtuous. He also believed the man and citizen are the creation of the City; they are it’s property (like slaves) and it’s children, and the individual has no right to assert individual rights against the City. In his case justice is accepted as a compromise, and valued, not as good in itself, but for lack of power to do wrong; no man worthy of the name, who had that power, would ever enter into such a compact with anyone; he would be mad if he did. The general in the Athenian army and a greek historian, Thucydides believed the good life was self-sufficient;...
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...the succession of Sparta by the end of the war. Thucydides is seen as a ‘proto-realist’, one of the first realists in the study of politics that wrote in a more theoretical sense, as well as the founding father of International Relations. His study on the History of the Peloponnesian War provides awareness of the conflict and various analyses on the causes of the war by observing the strategic interaction between the states, hierarchy amongst the states along with legitimacy and levels of power to determine the pattern of their relations. Although there are undeniably numerous differences between Thucydides era and our world system today, Thucydides persists to influence contemporary international relations, namely Realism, with many realists frequently referring to the Melian Dialogue when advocating a power-based approach. With Thucydides often portraying insights into human nature, many scholars use his findings as a guide that is still relevant today due to the generality of self-interest, fear and power maximisation that still occurs as it did previously. Thucydides’ relevance today has been greatly perceived through his impact upon political realism in his studies concerning the concept of power politics. Whilst political realism expresses the view that international relations is the battle of self-interested states that are involved in the struggle of power politics within a permanent moral-free state of anarchy, Thucydides’ work denotes that international relations is...
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...Henry Thompson Contemporary Ethics Prof. Prettiman Thucydides versus Plato on the nature of the Good Life. Some have claimed that Thucydides is making empirical claims, whereas Plato is making normative claims. Is that true? Support your answer in your paper. Plato and Thucydides together had strikingly dissimilar views on their tactic on the good life. Scholars have demanded that Plato is making normative rights, whereas Thucydides is making empirical claims. Let's start by taking a look at Plato. Plato's philosophy on the decent life was based on the confidence that all has an objective or use that is classically suited for asset, beauty, fairness, and excellence of the exact thing, and all will depend on the conclusion of that role. He reflects the decent life as being reached finished the flawless love and lack of wish. Plato opinions the good lifetime as the disorder a person exhibits entire virtue. Virtue inclines to come after the nonappearance of desires, or prospects, so true contentment means being satisfied to the opinion one doesn’t have needs. He’s persuaded that everyone has the control to be virtuous. He too believed the gentleman and citizen are the formation of the City; they are its stuff (like slaves) and its broods, and the separate has no right to assert separate rights against the Urban. In this circumstance, justice is offered as a compromise, and appreciated, not as good in itself, nonetheless for lack of control to do wrong; no gentleman worthy...
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...Last discussion, we focused on Thucydides’ motives and methods for his historical record of the Peloponnesian war. First, we established that Thucydides’ stated purpose was to create a lasting account of the war between Sparta and Athens and to inform future generations of the lessons in history. Thucydides, unlike his contemporary Herodotus, was alive for all of the events he described. As a result, much of his evidence his is based on speeches, which he and his informants were unable to perfectly record. In place of the exact words, Thucydides takes the general sense of the speeches and applies what in his opinion “was called for by each situation” (1.22) This methodology ties directly into Thucydides’ notion that human nature remains constant....
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...from? What does life hold for us, is there anything after death? In ancient times several centuries before the birth of Christ, there were two Greek philosophers who sought the answer to one question. Thucydides and Plato’s ventured to know what is a “good life”; is it having everything you want or need through whatever means necessary? Is it an enlightenment of the mind, body and soul? These two philosopher’s ideas of what the “good life” was differed greatly. Through Thucydides perspective during the Peloponnesian war. Living a good life meant to be “materially self-sufficient”. During the prelude to the war between Athens and Melos; a sub colony of the Spartans connected through heritage. Thucydides explains that “might” makes right in times of war not justice. He believed that to have a good life one must be strong, that “the strong do what they will, the weak will suffer what they must, and morality is irrelevant” (Newton CHP1 P1). Such beliefs seem to hold the life of man as a selfish one Thucydides’ life was lived off the theory that there was no place for the likes of justice in the traditional meaning of the word. That to be happy one should need to take what one needs, and if they could not, then they were weak and could not live the good life. Contrary to Thucydides views on the “good life”, Plato believed that enlightenment and the pursuit of knowledge was what made a good life not the pursuit of power or might, and that worldly objects only hindered one’s ability...
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...Written by the Greek historian Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War is one that tells the story of the war (431-404 BC) which divided the Greek world between Athens and its allies and Lacedaemon. The Melian Dialogue presents two sides and two perspectives that of the Melians neutrality and that of the Athenians’ might. By Thucydides juxtaposing the Athenian’s position to that of the Melians, there is a clear conclusion of which side actions are tactically and morally acceptable. One would argue that the Athenians are immoral for violently plundering the Melian territory because they had the power to do so. However, given the circumstance of trying to defend their empire due to the imbalance of forces, the Athenian actions are not unduly harsh and are justified because they needed to assert their power. The Melians’ senselessness of resistance and logicality of weakness enables Athens’ actions to be more reasonable. Athens is a nation that has demonstrated their power and authority towards other nations in situations of war and imperialism. In tactically trying to gain allies in the war against Sparta, Athens’ main objective is not to appear weak before their enemies and as a result, they needed to assert their power towards Melos. While asking the Melians to submit, the Athenians say to them, “for your hostility cannot so much hurt us as your friendship will be an argument to our subjects of our weakness, and your enmity of our power” (Thucydides 269). Here, the Athenians...
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...An Athenian general by the name of Thucydides was exiled out of Athens for losing a battle in about 500 BCE. After he left the city, he wrote about the dialogue between Melos and Athens called the Melian Dialogue. In Athens, 5th century BCE they were becoming an empire of ancient Greece. Alcibiades, who was also an Athenian general, was planning a trip over seas to take over Sicily. Athens needed money so they sailed all the way to an island called Melos to persuade them to pay the tribute. The Melian Dialogue is a conversation where Athens uses Rhetoric (the art of persuasive speaking) and argues the point of Physis (survival of the fittest) to persuade Melos into paying the tribute. In the end Melos doesn’t agree to pay the tribute and to be an ally with Athens so Athens takes over Melos, kills all the men, and sells all the women and children into slavery. Athens warned Melos and created a strong argument which makes Athens justified in what they did to the island of Melos. In the Melian Dialogue, Athens makes a strong argument around the idea of physis. “This is not an idea that we made ourselves, nor are we the first to act upon it when it was made. We found it already in existence, and we shall leave it to exist for ever among those who come after us” (Thucydides 105). In other words what Athens is saying is, we are not the first to act upon “Natural Law”, that the strong will do what they must do to stay in power for as long as possible. Therefore...
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...An Athenian general by the name of Thucydides was exiled out of Athens for losing a battle in about 500 BCE. After he left the city, he wrote about the dialogue between Melos and Athens called the Melian Dialogue. In Athens, 5th century BCE they were becoming an empire of ancient Greece. Alcibiades, who was also an Athenian general, was planning a trip over seas to take over Sicily. Athens needed money so they sailed all the way to an island called Melos to persuade them to pay the tribute. The Melian Dialogue is a conversation where Athens uses Rhetoric (the art of persuasive speaking) and argues the point of Physis (survival of the fittest) to persuade Melos into paying the tribute. In the end Melos doesn’t agree to pay the tribute and to be an ally with Athens so Athens takes over Melos, kills all the men, and sells all the women and children into slavery. Athens warned Melos and created a strong argument which makes Athens justified in what they did to the island of Melos. In the Melian Dialogue, Athens makes a strong argument around the idea of physis. “This is not an idea that we made ourselves, nor are we the first to act upon it when it was made. We found it already in existence, and we shall leave it to exist for ever among those who come after us” (Thucydides 105). In other words what Athens is saying is, we are not the first to act upon “Natural Law”, that the strong will do what they must do to stay in power for as long as possible. Therefore...
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...(Freyberg-Inan, 1). Yet, in political theory, "realism" represents a school of thought that analyzes the political process as it is or as it is disclosed by historical forces " ... that the able political practitioner takes into account ... and incorporates ... into his political conceptions and his political acts "(Ibid, 1-2). In the field of international relations, realism became the dominant analytical paradigm mostly after the start of the Second World War, when it displaced idealist doctrines, promising "to provide more accurate information, more powerful, and more relevant answers" to the roots or causes of peace and war (Brecher& Harvey, 54). At the same time, many features of the current realist paradigm can be traced back to the time of Thucydides, Niccolo Machiavelli and Thomas Hobbes. Among contemporary thinkers recognized as major writers and contributors to the realist tradition are Hans Morgenthau, Edward Carr and Kenneth Waltz (Freyberg-Inan, 8). What are then the basic tenets or common features of a realist thinker? Machiavelli would acknowledge that to be a realist one has to look at history as "a sequence of cause and effect whose course can be analysed and understood by intellectual effort, but not directed by imagination" (Carr, 64). Hobbes would persist in the same train of thought and insist that to be a realist thinker one must look at things as they are and not as they should be (Warner, 37). Thus, both of these thinkers direct us to the idea that the creation of...
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... The famous Trojan War described in Homer’s Iliad epic gave descriptions of Achilles, Hector, Paris and Helen of Troy which were intertwined with the gods Athena, Apollo and Hephaestus. Homer entertained the populace with the “actions of gods and the deed, passions, glories, and defeats of a few heroes,” but also cataloged a few historical significant items. Subsequent the Great Persian War (in 490 and 480/79 BC) inspired Herodotus in writing his Histories migrating from heroes and gods to a more common cultural history. His descriptions still held a dramatic flair which was pleasing to the populace but held a more chronological account of events. Following the Great Persian War was the Peloponnesian War (430-404 BC) and brought forth Thucydides. His accounts of the war provided an analytical view on events and identified sources to actions and political structure. Nevertheless historiography developed over the growth of Greek society and to better understand this each war and historian should be discussed further. Let us begin with the Trojan War. The area between the Black...
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...There are many figures in the history of the world that are remembered for different accomplishments they have achieved. From the Found Fathers, to Martin Luther King Jr., even people like Stalin and Hitler; all these historical figures have done huge things to change the world. What Pericles is specifically trying to say however, is that it is not the grand actions that one has done that ultimately matter in a person’s life, but how they treated others that matters in the long run. Pericles is correct in his statement because no matter what a person has done in their life, if they are an unkind person, it taints what good they had done. An example of this is John Forbes Nash Jr. There is a movie based on his life and it paints him as a...
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