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Dialogue Between Plato and Aristotle

In: Philosophy and Psychology

Submitted By menacek04
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Student Notes of observed dialog between Aristotle and Plato

Aristotle: So, let me get this straight, what you are saying is that this world we live in is not real?
Plato: You seem not to understand what I mean.
Aristotle: Because it is ridiculous.
Plato: No, listen. What I am saying is that the environment or form that we live in is full of unevenness, imperfection and impurity this because this form is merely a copy of the ideal world that one would understand once they rise above our physical environment and grasp it intellectually.
Aristotle: I understand you just fine but I disagree with you. I agree that our world is an imperfect world but I object to the notion that it is not real or that there is another invisible form out there from which it is cloned. I find that preposterous, everything is right here on earth, physically.
Plato: No. What we see on earth ‘physically’ as you say are just mimics or artificial replicas of the real thing only with a large amount of imperfections. This is just an illusion of the real thing.
Aristotle: How can that be when our natural world is real and physical? Let me explain it to you clearly, our world, this world is made up of many forms. Sure, they may not be ideal, pure or perfect but our senses identify with them.
Plato: Well, our senses identify with them because they are copies of the perfect form and we have knowledge of them. Let me explain it to you. Knowledge must have as its item that which is freely actual as juxtaposed with that which is an overall look only, that which is completely actual must be set, long lasting and unchanging- in the world of being in contrast to that which is in the world of actuality.. That is why you call these world ‘physical’ when it is just a perception from the true ideal form.

Aristotle: That is absurd! If experience has shown us anything is that personal substances are available and are actual, being predicated of the material and that a person is not created by some concept or model, they actually exist!

Plato: Now you have joined people inexperienced in the concept of forms. Captives in a cavern, limited to the walls with no chance of tilting your heads. With the flame behind you, you can only see the walls of the cavern and the dark areas of the shadows placed between you and the flame. You are not able to comprehend that the dark areas you see and the echoes you listen to are a representation of actual things, behind you. This world that is available to our feelings and essence prevails only as a representation of the actual world.

Aristotle: Here is where I differ to you completely! !An individual is not formed from the perception of another’s mind but from a person who through germ or seeds was able to recreate another one hence, the seeds in the person would be in efficiency type because of its potential to become another person later on. Every person is a substance of matter and form, not a mirror or perception of another from another form.

Plato: That is just how easy it is to confuse overall deception for truth, just like the captives in the cavern experience, they easily make reference to the dark areas using the titles of the actual things that the dark areas indicate. This just reveals that knowledge is only a representation of the actual concepts in our thoughts. What is seen on the world is a replica of the genuine thing. The captives, by looking at the dark areas may understand what an item is but this does not allow them to declare that it represents an object, which they have seen. Furthermore, we need the actual things in order to allow us obtain concepts.

Aristotle: So your idea is that we live in an imagined world and that is copied from an ideal world and that the physical items and entities we encounter on our day-to-day activities and with which our senses identify with are merely there for us to acquire concepts?
Plato: Yes. Exactly!

Aristotle: You are not serious! You do realize that that the likelihood of mistake causes the mind to figure out the fact credibility of a given declaration. Signifying that intelligence must have sufficient reasons, which can ensure the suggested verdict is in accordance to fact. These are the base of perfect information, information through causes. Not that we originate from some made up form that we cannot access, but that we originate from an individual. Matter is the indeterminate factor, which is constant, and form is the force and power forming and creating the person. That is a structure of two statements leading to correct reasoning.

Plato: So you object to my whole idea?

Aristotle: Completely! It lacks a foundation and crumbles upon itself. Your own argument argues that there is need for physical objects to enable us acquire concepts but your idea is based on an unseen form that cannot be confirmed physically.

Plato: We could argue about it for hours. It’s a stalemate.

Aristotle: Seems we have found an impasse, but I win!

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